Thought I would pop this in here for my own convenience but it might help others too.

A while back I wrote about all the different protein supps I could lay my hands on…the one that has remained with me as my stock cupboard standard is Dymatize Elite. I usually have one in my bag too. It’s the easiest protein boost out. Little effort for big pay off. Frankly it is to my mind the best one out there, it gets my vote for being top dog.

I do admit a soft spot for it as it was the only source of nourishment my mom in law could tolerate when she was in the advanced stages of cancer. I like to think we bought a few precious days extra with her because of it. Everything else caused her to retch or suffer more discomfort - I think that speaks volumes for this product.

I am ordering more today. While browsing I saw this:

https://www.sshealthfoods.com/pages.php?page=lt.powders&details=1114

I really REALLY like the look of it, this might be a super good supp for people struggling tiredness or with deficiencies, also for post op recovery. I like the added functional lipids and the nice Vitamin profile  - I might try it soon. :-)

I have a couple of days with a weird swollen ankle. Looked like an ellies foot for a while. I could not work out why. Labs were in good nick only a few weeks ago. I took extra protein just as insurance…though it is probably unrelated. My best guess is that I have been appalling with my fluid intake again :oops: - so I upped that & this morning I am normal again. Thank heavens.

Note to myself:  I have GOT TO GET ON TOP OF MY WATER intake….permanently.

Is it just me or are clothes sizes a mystery to others as well?

After some years of living out of my once very over bought wardrobe I decided it was time to buy a few nice items again. I went on a big clothes buying spree when I hit size 10 (4 years ago) and I overdid it - my wardrobe seriously overflows to this day. So I decided no more - wear it and be done with the clothes syndrome hangover that began the day I walked into monsoon 6 years ago after I lost most of my weight & almost everything fitted me!

But I was too tempted. Mainly because at the carboot last weekend this lady had a rack full of my type of gear (for a change!). I’m not into high street fashion although it looks lovely on some people.  I like my gear understated because I often wear extreme jewellery - big hunks of silver & stone. And I have a belt fetish borne out of the days when I had no waist to speak of, just a huge sheet of fat all around me. These accessories seldom look good on fiddly cuts and patterns. I still like tunics although I have learned that these need very simple fitted cutting to look good on me. Anything pleated or rouched rapidly swamps & enlarges me. Quite odd as these used to slim me down, or so I thought.  I also sometimes like body hugging tops - again simple ones…wearing them confidently did take me a couple of years as when I was large I only ever wore loose tops to try to hide myself in them.

So there she was with  East, older monsoon (not sure I like the new stuff much tbh, although occasionally they still make a nice thing or two), lots of pre-take over ghost, kew -  all beautiful linens and fabrics, almost new condition - who could resist! I began my justifying process - ‘well, it’s probably time I sort out my wardrobe and e-bay some gear to the other ‘artsy farts’ out there’ - ‘at these prices I’ll never find such a good deal again!’ - ‘if I sell off some of my older clothes it will easily pay for this lot’…. :oops:   :lol:

Plus it’s cheap as chips and all of it size 10. Perfect I thought as I bought a veritable black bag full of the stuff…knowing full well I have no space in my wardrobe at all…nada, not even enough for one extra top let alone a bag full of clothes…    :-)

Back home I tried on the trousers and they are all loose. I can still wear them thank goodness, but an 8 might have fitted me better. What’s going on?  I could have sworn I was a size 10.   :-|

Either sizes have got slightly larger since I last bought things - or I have got smaller and am still suffering from my body darned image dysmorphia thingie. Sheesh, I hate thinking I am over it and then finding that might not be the whole  truth…  :-?

Anyway - I have this week cut out for me as I sift and sort clothing for Africa. To add to it all my daughter has left about 4 black bags of her clothing here which she did not want anymore so I have got to sort that out too. I’m a bit fearful I will find things in her pile I love as well!  :roll: I’m going to have to be tough & strong and just get it off to our charity shops as fast as possible!  :-)

I can’t believe that I am 8 years old! This is my ninth year of travelling the DS way.

I pre-warn you - I’m going to allow myself to wax lyrical about my DS in this post! Get the bucket ready! :-P

Why? Because for me this has been an incredible surgery - not only because it transformed my body & my life, but because it is still good to live with.   I can give anyone who wants it the run down about the pro’s and con’s of living with the DS and always will, in the conviction that a good pre-op education is important - but I personally have no regrets - not one.

Pre-op I could not have known that 8 years on I would still be thanking the gods I had this surgery as much as I do. I was pretty daunted by the prospect of a re-routed gut, but life had become an unbearable mission for me. A daily struggle of exhaustion, social withdrawal, self hatred.  Pre op, I worried about all the vitamin taking, the possibility of living with diahorrea, the possibility of malnutrition.

Looking back I spent time nervously pondering vile smelly farts & poop as a part of daily life. This is often the  focus of those who want to scare the pants off us pre-op…along with the ridiculous and mean mythology that Dsers stink. I’ve never been able to quite understand it - except that sometimes it has a malicious tone of something resembling envy about it. The reality is any surgery choice that involves malabsorption will cause stinky stools and foul farts in varying degrees.

Sometimes this factor has been a bit of a worry for me when I have needed to stay over at friends houses for example - but I would still choose it a thousand times over having to diet with a surgery, forceful restriction methods, potential vomiting or the possibility of inconsistent or consistent dumping.

Stinky poop is not nice,but for me it’s been nothing as horrendous as I was once primed for by those who know so little about the DS and speak so much.  As for farting - yup, I had my share of those for around 3 years…nowadays I  have less wind than  I had pre-op…but still it is a case of run for cover at times - lol!

I have had the odd spate of diarrhea in the earlier years - it was always manageable. In my later years the pendulum swung and constipation set in. For me this was unexpected and worse than diarrhea & I yearned for a good old DS stool! I was about to accept it as something terrible I’d just have to resign myself to and live with. However then I thought on my mantra so often said to others  - that it is over to us to manage our gut & bowels …and realised I had better get on with practising what I preach.  I relearned that it’s about management even if it is unexpected constipation and I now have an optimal bowel movement again most days.

The fear of malnutrition - this too,  never came to pass & I hope it never will.  I do what it takes and nowadays despite taking many supps/vits, I hardly think about it. It takes seconds to swallow my pills…I’m on autopilot with them. So much so that sometimes I find myself next to the rack where I keep my supplements wondering why I am there at all and then suddenly remembering it is time for another dose!  This year I had two sets of labs done (one for research purposes) and both have come back looking perfectly good, although only when I get my dexa will I truly know if my bones are doing okay.

I have had a few deficiencies and to date they have always been manageable…we are not looking at guaranteed malnutrition syndrome with the DS, unless of course we don’t comply.

It did take me time to adjust to having my DS and along the way I have sometimes had to tweak things or try to find answers to issues I’ve had, but this is my ‘normal’ now & I’m more than content with it. There are days I think I  sound like a self-contented arrogant git to myself… and that there may come a day my DS induced happiness turns to bite me on the bum…but this is my truth so far. At the risk it might yet change I am still going to write it down!

It might just be old age but I find recently those earlier years of adjustment are almost a haze - I have to sit down and purposefully recall how they were.   The DS  has performed on every level for me better than I hoped it would.  I have had some times where my DS & Life converged that were difficult. I have had times my DS got a life of it’s own suddenly and refused to live by my rules where I had to think creatively and act strongly to pull it back in line  ;-) .   I also had a bowel obstruction in 2006 - it was not an easy time.

I still worry about possibilities that may or may not come to pass. Are the labs and the actual absorption the same thing?  Do we understand that fat malabsorbed vitamins don’t just mean ADEK - there are others and perhaps some not even yet discovered? What will the longerterm impact be of part of an intestine reserved only for bile flow?  In years to come will we find the DS only bought us more time to the stage of revision so many RNYers find themselves at in recent years? I have no answers  so I accept I am an experiment still in process. :-)

However this is Life - it is a complex phenomena DS or not. Every answer can become the next set of questions.    Life deals out challenges, I know of no one who has lived a life free of challenges. I always think had I not got the obstruction, for example - it might well have been something else!   I’m dead sure I am going to get plenty of challenges in the years to come and some are going to be very difficult to live through. Right now I am dealing (somewhat badly) with the polypy thing that may or may not be related to my surgery.   There are good and bad days. How we choose to deal with them is the thing. I deal with them well sometimes and other times I throw my toys out the cot, or bury my head in true ostrich.

Interwoven with a DS or for that matter, any surgery, there can be very difficult days that consist of effort - of pushing forwards, of trying to get one’s head around a presenting issue. No one told me it was going to be easy and those days that are hard I try to remember this. I also find it helpful to separate out my issues. Sometimes when I have had a bad day or am going through difficult times I blame it on my DS.  Then, when I am able to be more rational I find more often than not, it is not my DS that is the actual problem, it is my attitude or sometimes a shadow side of my personality that is the real issue which somehow became enmeshed in the DS side of my life. The process of deciphering, of untangling is a tough one, it can be painful stripping away ones own delusions - I’d not say otherwise.

There are no guarantees with any WLS. I have yet to find one that leaves every patient it touches in paradise and this includes the DS.  Still,  those researching should  hedge their bets very very carefully. Especially I urge those researching to think longerterm…look at risks of side effects and percentages of revision - one major surgery upfront is better imo than the cost, time, emotional upheaval of revisions that may or may not work at the end of the day.

Post op, a great part of making one’s peace with something like a WLS is in the management of it.  The DS is actually manageable in many ways…it’s not always an easy task but it’s not rocket science either. It means thinking outside the box sometimes, compliancy through good and bad times,  getting professional help, commitment to push through until one finds a solution.  It takes acceptance that management is effort and it’s an effort one might make for a very long time.

I also remember that had it not been for my DS - I might not be even dealing with any detangling issues in life at all.  I think a gratitude- chip was inserted at my surgery…I’ll be bending over tying my shoelace, squeezing into a small space, sitting in a small armchair with loads of space all around me,  hopping out the bath with ease, holding a child on this… MY LAP! , crossing my legs, eating a delicious meal, running after my mischief dog, spending a day on the walk without needing to rest even once, just feeling how my body is aligned how my legs no longer rub raw together, how my arms hang straight instead of being forced sideways…countless things - so many I cannot list them all… when I catch myself thinking thank heavens for this surgery!

I’m still so grateful that I chose the DS to be my surgery.   I remember when I was researching it I found a diagram of it.  I thought to myself - ‘this surgery is science - but it is also art’. The science is still working for me. We don’t fully understand it yet, we still have much to learn about it but it works for the greater majority of DSers I know. The art of the DS  is my freedom. My freedom to run, to be in a crowd with no one staring at me,  the way it balances out my need to eat and yet not to overeat…it gave me back a functioning body and a healthy attitude to food.

8 Years on & I am still on a fascinating learning curve about the DS.  Some theories about it  have changed over the years. More and more the metabolic function of it is being explored beyond just saying ‘it is malabsorptive’. I hope the full extent of it’s metabolic impact will be studied in depth because I believe it is still concealing many  secrets. WLS patients often say pity the surgery could not fix my head.   Imo, the DS DID do something to my head - I’d love to know what exactly.   Once we understand more of exactly how & why it works we might finally create that ‘magic obesity pill’.   :-)

Because of this surgery,  I have energy, my life is worth living for,  my food is tasty stuff, I  have satiation,I’m not stared at or lectured on the benefits of diet and exercise,  I have had 100% EWL. Over 10 stone gone for 8 years. I’m trying to keep my benefits concise here - lol.   In exchange I eat a mound of protein, fats & veggies (the nice part!) pass stinky poop once or twice a day,  take many supplements  and freak out if I get a twinge of pain abdominally thinking my days are done true drama queen style…  :lol:

I plan to celebrate my good fortune for a long time yet,  but if it all went pearshaped tomorrow, I would still say I have had a GREAT run in with my DS.  :-)

Even though I’ve never met them I want to thank Professor Scopinaro & Daddy Hess  ;-)   for creating this surgery in many ways.  I think the men who evolved the BPD/DS had pure genius…as do the many surgeons who have taken the time to add it to their skill sets since then.  It must have been hard at times in the face of the nay-sayers to still forge ahead with what imo still remains today a cutting edge state of the art surgery.

A  big thank you to my surgeon, Prof Weiner in Germany who did my DS and so many other surgeries besides (5 others in all plus my DS!!!)  without any thought other than for my quality of life.  Another very big thank you to Mr Patel here in the UK, who saved my life when my bowel twisted and  and who along with his team continues to monitor me and give me superb aftercare.  Going the longerterm confidently  is made possible for me by your dedication to WLS and I can’t put in words what that means to me.

Last but not least - thank you my dearest family and friends who have stood by me through difficult & easy times.  Especially big thanks to my Pete who has loved me through fat & thin, and who has been my shelter when it has rough, my voice and anchor when it has been touch & go  & the biggest  light in my life always.x

It’s spring and this morning in the garden I found several large slugs crawling about.  Shortly after that I moved a rock in my garden and a frog came darting out from beneath it. Both send chills up my spine because I know they may carry A. Vasorum or lungworm.  It’s a dog killer of the worst kind and this is how we lost Petal, my beautiful bullie pup. http://mssint.com/petal/

I try to eradicate slugs in the garden. I don’t use slug pellets  as these cause many dog deaths (even if they claim to be pet safe).  I use a liquid slug killer that I pour around area’s and plants that slugs are attracted to. But it’s a losing battle. Each year they are back again.

I can’t kill frogs…I just can’t.  I catch them and relocate them to our local canal.  But again - each year they arrive again.

I have HUGE anxieties about losing another dog to this. I deworm my dogs religiously.  However, recently when Ruby possibly picked up a mycotoxin I thought it might still be Vasorum. So fearful am I.  I asked my vet if it could possibly be?  He said could not guarentee it was not.

I have thought on that because it truly floored me. Why can it not be guarenteed?  I deworm - to the point that I often wonder what longerterm repercussions might be despite assurances I have had that there won’t be any.  I clean my garden of dog poop, I discourage foxes in my garden, I try to safely eradicate slugs (but fail), I relocate frogs…what can I do to protect my dogs further?  Even a blade of grass with snail slime on it may infect them. It is impossible to watch them all the time. I feel so powerless.

I ran a google search to see if it is possible for animals to build resistence to the dewormers I use. I was very  unhappy to discover that it seems this might be possible.  No one has ever told me this.  I am not sure what I have read is true - this is internet stuff - but I want to know this from my vet…is it possible?  I admit I am panicking, because if this is true, where do I go to find something to protect my dogs - short of leaving Surrey altogether and relocating to an area that still seems Vasorum free (and is not a rational solution as the bugger is spreading throughout the UK anyway) - but what to do?

All these thoughts because I’m still not 100% happy with the mycotoxin theory - although it does seem highly likely. I noticed today Ruby has some small bruising around her mouth & bruising might just be Vasorum related. Yes, I know I am overly vigilant and yes, I am neurotic, but I always say it’s the natural outcome of holding a dying dog  in your arms watching as the vasorum does horrendous, almost unspeakable things moment by horrible moment to it’s beautiful body. I have a pit of grief in me that can never go away about my pup’s loss.

That said, Ruby-girl is a rough player so it might just be she just banged her mouth, but I can’t take any chances.  I learned through losing Petal that it is vital not to discount the smallest things with lungworm. The slightest cough, the slightest bruising, the slightest changes might mean it is active in a dogs system. It can be so so subtle one could convince oneself it’s just this or that and it will go away. Problem is with Vasorum, things don’t always blow up into clearly visible signs - until it is too late.   I’m taking Ruwbs  to the vet to get this latest thing checked out and to ask my questions…until I have explanations I can hopefully work with.

I am also going to think on using Milbemax this time to deworm her. It’s one I have not used before so if there is a resistance in her - hopefully this will take care of it.

All these thoughts have made me realise if I thought staying on top of this worm just meant regular deworming - I might just be very  mistaken.

I keep tabs on what vasorum is doing around the UK in as much as I can. I see it is still being described as rare. Please tell me - what is with this RARE thing????  Is this the way we describe anything we don’t really understand or summat?  Or perhaps it is that no one wants to scare anyone, kind of like trying to provide a sheltered environment to shield them from the ghastly ever encroaching truth?  Or is it that it is so unpleasant that if we just call it rare instead it might go away?  I honestly get perplexed and frustrated  by this ‘rare’ thing over here in the UK.

It’s not about ’scaring’ anyone it’s about enlightening them, warning them to watch their dogs the best they can,to encourage them to notice anything that might be symptomatic & to deworm (it’s all we have got to fight this thing).

This ‘rare’ nonsense might also mean that research about it is regarded as low priority, which is not a good thing at all. Frankly I don’t buy ‘rare’  for a nano-second.  It may not be all pervasive, it may not be in certain areas (yet) - but it is dangerous. It is life threatening to the dogs we love, and in the UK we need to get real about it now.

We need more research and exposure.  We need to know if the drugs we give our dogs each month are going to help them, how fast they may become resistant to them,  where it is spreading, where it is currently, how many dogs have recently died in an area that has it. We need to know if there is anyway to safely stop it spreading aside from what we already know and to develop much better diagnostics that are affordable for all dog owners. Stool testing is not reliable enough. I’ll still try to do it, but at the end of the day anything not 100% accurate does not fill me with confidence. And it’s very  difficult to do if like Ruby, one’s dog conceals her poop time and her poop area. Lung x-rays are unaffordable for many and it would certainly stretch us heavily this month.

We need to inject money into Angiostrongylus Research like there is no tomorrow -  I know of a  unit in the UK doing amazing work but they need funds desperately.  Right now we have stool testing and 3 drug possibilities and that’s it.  For a nation of dog lovers,  it’s actually appalling. :-(

I think I am going to look at what I can do to raise money to help the research unit.  Please if you have lost your dog to A Vasorum, or if you are willing to  donate anything for research purposes,  I’d be very grateful to hear from you.

Please write to me: jane@weightloss-surgery.com

Here is a website with some basic info about A Vasorum:

http://www.lungworm.co.uk/scripts/pages/en/home.php

There are many very positive reasons to consider a Duodenal Switch surgery  and I have spoken at length about them before. So in this blog I am going to focus purely on the weight loss aspect of choosing a DS.   It’s not the B and end all of choosing a surgery, but imo it is a very important player.

I’ve often heard patients with other surgery types say to me that they only wished they’d known about the DS as they’d have definitely opted for it. When I ask them why they’d have chosen it,  it is interesting that I’ve never heard anyone say ‘ because it would have helped me be healthier’. The answer without exception, is that they feel they’d have lost more weight with it.

I’ve given the same answer at times when I have been asked why I chose my DS.

People generally understand it much better than ‘I wanted to preserve my pylorus, keep my digestive system vagally intact and capitalise on the metabolic factors it offers ‘, for example. ;-)

At the end of the day weight loss matters… it’s just as simple as that.

It’s at last becoming more common knowledge that the BPD/DS has the best percentage of excess weight loss of all surgery types.  What data we have consistently shows this over the past years.

The link below also looks at some quite recent research that shows it has an excellent percentage of body fat loss over the other surgeries too (and that’s what we want to lose, not muscle!):

http://www.weightlosstriumph.com/weight-loss-surgery-comparison-gastric-bybass-duodenal-switch-gastric-band-sleeve-gastrectomy.html

The duodenal switch has traditionally been thought of  as the optimal surgery for those who have higher BMI’s.  It’s something that I have read of over the years - the DS is for those with BMI’s that are greater than 45.  And I agree.

But I don’t agree that it might not also be an excellent  surgery for those in the 35 with co-morbs - 40 BMI range. I was over BMI 45 and nonetheless regarded as a DS lighterweight - but had I been BMI 35 with co-morbs I would still have fought tooth & nail to get my DS.

Why would I say this when it is clearly a major surgery?

  • Because I have observed over the years that for lighterweights there seems to be a  much better chance of losing beyond the frequently quoted excess weight loss percentages.
  • Co-morbs such as high blood cholesterol and diabetes have the best track record of resolve with the DS .

Those that are involved with WLS might sometimes see super morbidly obese people as being in a worse off situation than those of us who are morbidly obese. This appears to sometimes justify reserving the DS for higher BMI’s only.

However - being at any stage of obesity is a very subjective thing and we do appear to have different ways of coping with wherever we are at on the scale.  I don’t think we can quantify mental and emotional suffering. Even trying to quantify physical suffering is extremely difficult.  I have friends who remain very large - much larger than I was. And they elect NOT to have surgery at all.  When I look at them  they appear to be coping and in much better health than I was, even though my obesity was not as developed as theirs. It’s very personal and very individual.

When it comes to deciding if someone is viable for a DS  I don’t think it is right to just throw a generalized BMI blanket over it.  To my mind this is very linear thinking. It still happens, although it seems to be getting marginally better in the UK.  Some surgeons appear to refuse to give those below 40BMI even with co-morbs any consideration. Even getting it at 40BMI can be quite difficult for those who are determined and who, on the face of it, do seem to be very good candidates for a DS.

That said I do think we need to draw a rational line under it and my feeling is that  the cut off point of 35BMI with co-morbs is sensible.

It’s vital to take into account what co-morbs someone may have and if the DS could have an effective impact on them over and above other surgery types,  how they are coping emotionally, mentally and socially, whether they have a mature sense of realism about the surgery, whether they have a strong knowledge about the DS upfront, whether they personally feel they will cope with it’s nutritional demands,  and  how they intend to do this.

This is the truly important stuff.

To any Dser considering the surgery, lighterweight or not - I suggest strongly that you research and understand as much as you can about it. Search your own soul about it too, be honest about the possible hurdles you as an individual might face due to your own personal issues. This way you’ll give yourself more ability to change whatever it might be that needs changing for the future.

Another reason very frequently  given to lighterweights struggling to get a DS,  is that they risk ‘overshooting’ and ending up losing too much weight.

Perhaps giving people with BMI 35 with co-morbs to 40 BMI longer common channels might help prevent overshooting. There is also the possibility of  leaving the stomach a little larger,  but these are discussions for one’s surgeon.

As a pre-op I thought long and hard about the fact that I might overshoot into anorexic thinness and struggle to maintain a healthy weight.  It seemed very unlikely to me. I felt I had much more chance of being left overweight as my obesity felt deeply entrenched and almost immoveable to me.  Just prior to my surgery I had lived through a last ditch attempt to diet. I tried the Atkins diet which was harsh, and during which I lost almost nothing. It was as if my system had finally packed up and turned to stone. I saw a brilliant endo at the time who said it was likely my syndrome X was part of the reason the diet had not worked.  I mentioned WLS and to my surprise he told me in my shoes he would consider it. I still consider him an evolved soul, way ahead of his time! :-)

In those days coming in just above 45 BMI was probably the equivalent of trying to get the DS at BMI 39 today. Surgeons seemed happier doing it at 50BMI plus.   Of course I hoped my body would just slot into a good healthy weight and be done with it but I also had to play out possible scenario’s in my mind.

Given a choice of the two possibilities:

To potentially struggle with still being overweight?  ( Rebound weight gain is not uncommon - even with the DS.)

Or - to potentially struggle with being underweight? … which could I live with better?

Call me fickle - but if I was not going to hit a perfect BMI - I’d plump for the underweight option everytime.  I’d had a lifetime struggle of ‘overweight’. I was fed up with it.

I thought in the event I lost more rapidly I would control it by adding more carbs and sugars to my diet. That did not look like too much of a hardship to me at the time!  As an obese person used to depriving diets, it had quite a luxurious ring to it - imagine being able to eat all the carbs I liked!

Oh little did I know! :roll:

However before I came to the fine line of potentially slipping into excessive skinny-ness, I did have a little taster of what it feels like to have a rebound gain in weight. A few years into my DS,  I had some weight gain. It was not a lot in the greater picture, but I panicked awfully. Each time I weighed myself I had an awful feeling in the pit of my stomach. I lived with anxiety and at times it depressed me.  Luckily for me my regain stabilised and in the following year I began to lose weight again. Just the teeniest amount - here and there. This continued for several years adding up to a pretty substantial overall loss.

I still can’t quite work out why. It might have been that by then I had slotted into an eating pattern that was simple. I had got over my need for a daily small chocolate and lost interest in having it. I ate a diverse range of protein foods and healthy fats, lots of complex carbs and little else. But  it might also just have been that my DS decided it was time to be on the metabolic move again!

The day did come when my weight kept threatening to slip into being overly thin.  And eating carbs was quite a chore - I moaned about it a lot, to my own surprise!   They unsettled my tummy and just tasted so awfully bland.

I’m afraid my carb eating approach did not last long. It was not the pleasurable activity I once imagined it would be.  I became aware that it was going to be BIG effort time again. And effort - is effort. Whether one is working not to gain weight or not to lose weight!

Instead of flour based carbs I turned to simple sugars. I took to sucking boiled sweets throughout the day with my surgeons blessings.  ;-)

However after a while I stopped doing it because I felt the sweeties could become very hard to stop at some stage.  I was enjoying them way toooo much, justifiable or not, and my use of them was rapidly accelerating in quite an unconscious way. I had also begun to drink a lot of sugar in my tea -  and I felt it was that or the sweets. Not both.

I think my sugar intake helps me not lose further weight - but I also worry about it from a health point of view.    I have recently been  a bit conflicted about it. I’ve been worrying that I might be playing a potentially dangerous game with my blood sugars. However I had my blood sugars tested last week and was very pleased to hear today that they are entirely normal, so at this point my body is coping with them.

I’m currently 8 stone 7.

Were it not that my DS check ups require getting on the scales, I’d be happy to never see one of those darned things ever again!  Even at my current weight they make me momentarily and involuntarily anxious!

I’ve lost over 100% of my excess weight.

The thing is - I don’t have to be in a constant worry about weight gain.  It has huge psychological implications for those of us who know the full impact of being uncontrollably obese. I have been there both before and after my DS - and I don’t like being there.

I was spot on about things pre-op.  Even though I discovered that trying not to lose weight is as much an effort as trying to lose it and neither are ideal or easy - I definitely prefer to do battle with potentially being underweight than overweight.

I’d love more solid data about just how many DS lighterweights actually do overshoot, but there seems to be almost no data about it. Is it a danger that is over considered perhaps?  I asked a doc who is very informed, what the percentage of the DSers overshooting in her care was.  She said that they very loosely put all the surgery types together and say roughly 10%  will regain, roughly 10% will overshoot. In the series of Hess, standalone DS figures were 3.8% - for both regain and too much weight loss. Again the figures remain lumped together and I’ve not been able to find any definitive figures for DS overshooting alone. Which makes me wonder if it is an insignificant enough figure(unless of course you are personally struggling with it) that it simply doesn’t form much of a priority in research?

Most of the data I have read on the DS  speaks of losing iro 75 % EWL. I have also read data saying EWL is 40%…and various figures in-between.  It doesn’t seem to hold a huge risk for overshooting based on these figures.

I have a hunch we might see more overshooting earlier in the DS - but longerterm?  Do we find we can hold firm in a healthy BMI range?  Do some of the initial overshooters find that with further adaptation of the gut they begin to have some gain in weight?  As you can see, unfortunately as usual I have more questions than answers.

Over the years I have read a few horror stories about uncontrollable overshooting. There have been people who have been through hell with it and have had to resort to revisions to stop the loss.

So, if one is a lighter BMI opting for a DS must be thought through very carefully and discussed with one’s surgeon in the smallest detail. Overshooting  can be quite alarming and I personally have at times found it quite difficult to be teetering on the brink…although I think,( hope) I am stable now.  On the other hand some DSers I know who have overshot say they enjoy the complete freedom to eat loads of food and pretty much what they please, as they work to stabilise their weight loss.

All in all,  I don’t think we should just dismiss out of hand that the DS for lighterweights could be an incredibly optimal surgery.  For the right lighterweight candidates, it could bring not only the health benefits of weight loss but also the chance to lose an optimal and substantial amount of weight.

I think there is something to be said for that.

So at the risk of sticking out my neck - I am saying it! :-P

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/1236

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Prebiotic-fibres-may-boost-weight-loss-Study

http://mayoclinproc.highwire.org/content/83/4/460.full

Diving straight in here!

A prebiotic is soluble fibre. It’s the substrata or food for increasing probiotic colonies in the gut.

A probiotic is a  ‘good gut bacteria’ such as acidophillus

As I wrote in my previous blog I made the huge mistake of jumping into the prebiotic arena no holds barred and I suffered a bloat to outdo anything I had experienced before.  I very nearly wrote off the entire idea. In those days inulin was much more available than oligofructose so this was my intro into prebiotic world. Oligofructose is a much more recent addition in my life and something I started with only this year.

With both inulin & oligofructose I very slowly built up my tolerance levels…after my initial bloat episode I stopped taking the inulin for several weeks then slowly began again - this time sprinkling small doses of it on food.

For most people pre & probiotics seem to be beneficial.  For weight loss surgery patients they also appear to provide many benefits, some that are pretty interesting…weight loss, better bowel function, increased absorption of minerals.

A minor drawback, that does not feel so minor when one is farting away,  is  that both prebiotics and probiotics can cause initial bloating and wind.

I have never had this with probiotics but our mileage as always, varies.

Most of the bloating passes relatively quickly as the gut adjusts, but consider lowering the amount you are taking if you have too much discomfort or are not seeing any improvement.  There’s no harm in taking acidophilus for a day, then resting the next day.  Bloating as a side effect can be dose related.  Increase natural food sources of pre & probiotics first perhaps - using things like artichokes, banana’s, yogurt, chicory based drinks (taken cold or warm but not hot) .  There is no rush and my experience has been that taking things easy has still added up to good longerterm effects.

When I first read that prebiotics might increase weight loss, of course my ears perked up! (In the bariatric link below.) However in my case at this point weight loss is not as much a concern as keeping my weight relatively stable. I’m hoping prebiotics are playing a role in this for me.  The greater reason I take them is because they appear to increase calcium absorption. (Albeit in big doses that I don’t do.) Oligofructose has been shown to be helpful in reducing constipation too - and recently I lean more towards this form of prebiotic than the inulin to beat my constipation. ( I currently take it in a higher % than the inulin…a rough ratio of 2:1)  It does seem to be helping me quite significantly in this department which I am very happy about. It does not cause me diahorrea at all - rather in my case it has generally given me back my original DS Mr Whippy texture which I prefer over any other stool consistency. For me this is a ‘normal’  DS stool.

Constipation is not a good thing.  WLS patients should get medical help if it is an ongoing problem despite trying things like increasing fluids and prunes etc. There are some indications that constipation might play a role in diverticulosis - a condition that frankly I fear having nearly lost my mum to the more severe form of it. And let me not even start on how it wrecks the anal tissues!

If you lean more towards diarrhea, you’ll need to think on using prebiotics carefully - perhaps bounce it off your health professional.  With the low dose I take I don’t get diarrhea. Even when I initially took high doses I only experienced bloating - no diarrhea.  Some people report inulin as causing them diarrhea. Whether this stops over longerterm use I don’t know. Or whether it is because megadoses of the stuff is to blame in some way for their discomfort, who knows?  There are many studies strongly suggesting prebiotics might prevent help to prevent diarrhea, IBS and such.  I read an abstract that had people taking 15gm’s of oligofructose with no side effects being reported.

However if I had diarrhea I would first be looking at getting resolve under my GP’s guidance. I’d want to rule out  bacterial overgrowth and correct it using antibiotics followed by  probiotics.  If I was trying prebiotics with a history of diarrhea unrelated to bowel overgrowth, I would only use trace amounts until I was certain it was giving me no side effects.

As it is, I’m very conservative with my use of prebiotics. I have some difficulty with the idea of huge doses of it based on nothing scientific..but rather on my own bodies responses to it.  My body seems comfy with the dose I take currently, although this might change at some time.  When it comes to the use of prebiotics & probiotics my feeling is that we each need to explore and find our own optimal balances.

I also feel through natural sources we’d not get a concentrated dollop of refined inulin-oligofructose consistently. As it is more and more being added to various foods we probably get some in from these sources as well as natural dietary sources.   My max dose is 5 gms and more often it’s below 2.5gms…many would consider this a very minimal amount, but I still feel it benefits me. I very very seldom need flagyl, or acidophilus for that matter, although I sometimes take the odd probiotic boost. I find where the prebiotics soften my stool — probiotics tend to firm it up…but this is just my personal observation about the effects these have on me.

Both oligofructose & inulin look like fine white powders. Inulin is less sweet to my taste. Both add a nice ‘mouthfeel’ to whatever I add them to…just a bit of extra creaminess factor.  Inulin should not be taken hot or very cold as temperatures might affect it’s performance. Oligofructose on the other hand is stable in temperature extremes and is quite often used in commercial baked products where it may replace some fats and sugars. I like the fact that I can add it to my cooking if I please.

Avoid synthetic forms of prebiotics - these cause gastro intestinal discomfort.

When buying acidophilus buy the best you can afford. Look for one with multiple strains of good bugs. I’m not a fan of the ones that sit outside the fridge on supermarket shelves…I don’t think they do the job.

I use Kudo’s acidophilus and I also keep a bottle of Udo’s 5 chewables in my fridge which  I use mostly when my tongue looks gungy  or when I have a sore throat. It’s designed for oral as well as gut health.  It has a bacteria in it called Lactobacillus Salivarius which I don’t want to know more about!!  But it works very well for me on these issues and also has plenty of gut beneficial bacteria.
 POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS:

Aside from the relatively common occurrence of temporary bloating there may be rare side effects with prebiotics & probiotics.  I wrote this into my previous post but again: don’t take acidophilius if you are immunocompromised in any way. It may not be safe and could cause serious problems according to some websites I have looked at. As you know the internet can be brilliant at times but it can also contain plenty of conflicting theories. I looked for more solid medical data about the possible dangers and found very little, but that doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. 

This one did say it could be a risk for those on corticosteroids as these suppress immune function:  http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowFulltext&ProduktNr=223838&Ausgabe=231832&ArtikelNr=94041

I don’t know if prebiotics could cause problems as well. I did read that someone had a serious allergic response to inulin but it’s probably a rare occurrence. Much more often they have been shown to benefit those with allergies:

 http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/6/1091

I think anyone with an immunocompromised system, an illness of any kind or who is taking medical drugs, is better off getting medical advice about anything they take, be it prebiotic or probiotic or for that matter any alternative type of therapy.

Here is a very interesting comprehensive article that explains possible benefits for bariatric patients way better than I can:

http://bariatrictimes.com/2009/11/17/probiotics-prebiotics-gut-microbiota-and-obesity/

More about Prebiotics:

Explanation & some listed food sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prebiotic_%28nutrition%29

Increases mineral absorption:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/2/459S

——————————————————————————————————————————
On another note - here’s my food intake today:

Breakfast:

8 tablespoons of spinach (leftover from yesterday)

1 tablespoon bacon bits

1 small chopped onion

cooked with 2 fried eggs

and 3 tablespoons cheddar cheese

Lunch:

Cherry compote yogurt

2 slices of leftover roast lamb

handful of mixed nuts

Dinner:

1 tablespoon macaroni cheese

1 and half chicken fillets baked in cheese/bacon sauce

Spinach again - creamed! - half of a ready meal sized punnet. ( My son bought it not realising I had eaten a mound of it this morning!)

a small banana

I’m hoping before 10 pm to drink a big glass of milk - and then it’ll just be water until sometime tomorrow!

Today I decided we could all do with more fish oil in our diets. Pete & myself because I’m thinking we need the anti-inflammatory effects of it to perhaps help us get past this evil flu that seems to linger on for an age.

My dogs get it frequently but the capsules are such a performance - I thought I would buy some in liquid form. Ruby especially needs it right now to help her fully recover from her ordeal and to give her a little more energy. She is steadily improving now and all day long Pete and I take extra special delight in her antics and express our gratitude and relief that we never lost her.

So we went to boots and I bought some Equazen ‘eye q liquid’.   It comes in vanilla and orange flavour…something that does not impress me - wot’s wrong with plain old fish oil as is?   The idea of vanilla fish is enough to turn my stomach so I plumped for the orange.  I took a dose just now and actually it’s not bad at all. No dreaded fishy taste & the orange flavour was a bit like orange peel & not sickly sweet - it leaves a not unpleasant aftertaste that does’nt linger tooo long. Think I can live with this. I find it much easier to take than those great big capsules that have been my usual choice. I don’t like that they don’t explain how they access the fish oils - distillation or not?   I do like that they include evening primrose oil & Vit E  in the mix & no artifical flavours.   It cost £9.99 at Boots.

However - it’s definately imo not suitable for dogs - so I bought some plain cold pressed fish oil off the internet for them which will hopefully arrive before I run out of the last capsules.

Here’s a site about the benefits plus possible side effects and interactions with drugs of Fish oil:

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-993-FISH+OIL.aspx?activeIngredientId=993&activeIngredientName=FISH+OIL

I also decided to monitor my food intake again over the next few days. I’m eating well at the moment.

Breakfast:

M&S pot of readymade oats porridge, added oligofructose, marvel milkpowder plus cinnamon
2 scrambled eggs plus:
bacon bits, mushroom & onion (around 3/4 tablespoons)
grated cheese (around 4 tablespoons)

Snack:
Starbucks hazelnut hot choc (small size)
1 and a half starbucks gingersnaps

Lunch:
Small Bowl of chicken curry and about 2 tablespoons of yellow rice

Snack:
Cherry tomatoes, sliced cucumber, olives, edam cheese

Dinner:
3 medium slices roast lamb
2 roast baby potatoes-skin on
4 tablespoons spinach
3 tablespoons butternut squash
gravy

and one totally stuffed me!

You might notice ‘oligofructose’ in the oats porridge and be wondering what the heck that is and why I eat it? It’s a prebiotic much like inulin which is chicory derived.  Prebiotics are ’soluble fiber’.   I have taken prebiotics for years with my DS…I think I recall writing at times about the importance of soluble fiber in our diets.  I take both oligofructose & inulin because they work in different sites of the colon.  I find them very beneficial for my bowel health - basically in very laymans terms they provide a good environment for the good gut bacteria to flourish.  A paper was  written about them that seemed to indicate they helped people lose weight. I don’t need the loss, but I like to explore all avenues of maintaining my weightloss - and if this helps it’s a further plus. Another benefit is apparently better mineral absorption, calcium among them - this is can only be of benefit to us WLS patients.

If you are thinking it sounds good and you’d like to give it a try, a small word of caution - don’t just jump in and take the recommended dose!  Bloating can be swift and hideously uncomfortable. I have worn that T-shirt! 8-O

I think I might have had a ‘die off’ of bad bugs that never helped either so I would never ever in a million years repeat my mistake! If only I had been a bit wiser but in those days I was an intrepid adventurer and my own experiment.   If I could un-live that experience I’d first take acidophilus for a few days & get my bowels in some good nick.  This is not the stuff to park into a bowel overgrowth straight off imo.  If  bowel health is very poor medical attention is needed as step one (and  flagyl or augmentin first perhaps)…followed by plenty of yogurt, more yogurt… and then quality acidophilus…and then a slow intro of prebiotics.  If your bowel health is reasonable, begin with trace amounts. Feel it out. There’s no rush.

Although I now have a good tolerance level,  I still don’t take the full recommended doses because I feel that in nature we’d not get huge concentrated amounts  of the stuff in our food sources. It’s just my opinion but I feel through natural sources it would be trace amounts here and there. I take between 2.5ml -5ml of an oligofructose-inulin mix…but it took me several years to do this.   I felt I saw benefits in the years I took trace amounts (of inulin only)…so I’m personally not convinced that we need the 8-10gms some manufacturers recommend.  I know I have gone on a bit - don’t be put off by what I have written though - it is well worth making a plan to move towards good bowel health with prebiotics and the benefits are worth the initial setup.  I seldom even think about my intake nowadays - it’s taken much how I might take marvel, with little thought. :-) Next time I blog I’ll try to explain it all in better detail.

Just another word of warning - don’t take acidophilius if you are immunocompromised in any way. It may not be safe and could cause serious problems. I don’t know if prebiotics could cause problems as well - but I think anyone with an immunocompromised system is better off getting medical advice about anything they take. 

Back to the above food intake - I’ve not counted up my tea - neither the milk or sugar in it but it’s probably a fair whack of sugar..I seem to keep cycling through this issue lately and I’m getting a bit fed up with myself!  I’ve run out of palm sugar and not replaced it yet so to add injury it’s brown sugar which I know is not kind to my GI responses. Some weeks I control it much better and other weeks it’s not good.  It’s not been a particularly good week on this front…but there have been worse. Still, in my heart I know there must be a point where I really move to reduce this intake whether it is palm or brown sugar.

I reckon I really could have done without the gingersnaps at Starbucks - why I feel moved to buy & eat things when I have a Starbucks I don’t know! :roll:  I’m trying to get more of a grip of late about what is essential in my eating life - and what is just unnecessary extra.

I’m quite pleased with my veggie and protein intakes on the plus side.  Though I think I could aim for less food if required,  as I know I go through phases of ‘plenty’ and then  phases of ‘just enough’ …and tomorrow I might well not eat as much as I did today, I’m not going to change anything at the mo.  :-)

So I relook my previous post on bugs in chicken with new eyes now!

Was it a weird type of premonition of some kind perhaps?  Not quite the same as what was to transpire - but  still in some ways connected.

Yesterday I took my virus laden body ( I am still quite ill with this flu) into the garden as I thought flu or not I could not waste the beautiful sunshine apon us. I had a plant that needed relocating. I noticed that Ruby my bullterrier had already dug me a nice big hole in the flowerbed - alas not in the perfect place.  Then I noticed her chomping on something disgusting.  I pulled a mouldy goodness knows what out of her reluctant mouth. I thought then that it looked like the stuff food poisoning was made of.  I wondered if she had buried it at some time and had dug it out of the hole. A few moments later I retrieved an old white bone from Zenni as well.

I thought nothing further of it.  Later in the afternoon I was again outside with my dogs when I noticed Ruwbs get very excited. She hunts small flying bugs like no other dog I have had - makes me laugh as she always does this with a soft toy in her mouth, as if for security against the flying invaders. A little later I glanced   her way again. I noticed her leg tremoring. I thought her obsession was now getting over the top. I called her over to me and realised something was badly wrong. Her eyes were erratic - they moved from side  to side with no co ordination. Her tremors were increasing by the minute.

No one else was at home. Pete was in Holland. My son Luke at work and my youngest had just gone to the shops. I phoned the vet said I had an emergency and was on my way. I grabbed Ruby and a blanket and rushed to my car. To my distress the battery was absolutely flat. Can you believe it!  I spiralled into an all time panic.  I ran to my lovely neighbours and they got ready to take us to the vet. Just then my youngest arrived and he held Ruby in the back of the car.  By then she was frothing at her mouth and vomiting profusely.

It seemed an age of negotiating traffic and I was beside myself really. I thought it might have been the mank thing she had dug up, but several years ago I lost my beautiful pup, Petal to A Vasorum. It looked similar. Not the same - but it was clearly neurological whatever it was. I thought it impossible that Vasorum could come back to haunt us. We are fastidious about deworming our dogs with the correct drug - every month. We NEVER miss it. It is logged in and we also give the dogs panacur as an additional precaution every 3 months in the vasorum season. As it was spring & the slugs and frogs are coming out - we had in fact just given Ruwbs panacur two weeks ago. I could not believe it. Again for the hundreth time I saw my Petal in her final awful hours only this time I also saw my beautiful Ruby slipping further and further into a catastrophic physical mayhem.

Our vet began work on her immediately. He said he thought it was not likely vasorum - more likely connected to the dug up debris. Her situation was very serious. They began her on a drip & charcoal also valium to try to stop the ever increasing tremors and hyperactive brain activity.  By this time I am afraid I had lost the plot and I was in tears. I rushed outside and threw up. :oops:   My nose began to bleed quite profusely into the miserable bargain.  I think I must have looked an awful sight.  My son was concerned but also slightly embarressed by his emotional mother,  but the staff were so kind and understanding.

I left my sweet little bullie in the vets for the night but I could not sleep for thinking about her.  We gave Zenni charcoal just in case but thankfully he seemed fine. Through the long long night I read paper on paper on mycotoxins through the night and only scared myself even more. :-?

Although most dogs do survive many don’t. Some are left with permanent tremors and neuro effects. I thought - even if my bright spark came back to me with brain damage I could face that. I would work with it. I just wanted her alive. It was a terrible night.

This morning the vet called. Good news!  Ruby had been extremely ill through the night but they had seen slow improvement starting around 4 am. She was still ill but out of the woods. She was shaking but the vet felt this was just her usual anxious behaviour - she does this on any visit to the vets.    He felt because of this it would be best to fetch her at midday & settle her into her own routine at home.

I can’t tell you how relieved I was!   :-D

We collected her at midday. She was so excited that I got afraid she might relapse.  She is still not well - very weak. Her back leg still has a worrying kind of semi-paralysis to it. I have been rubbing it gently today to try to bring feeling back into it.  The good thing is that she has no neuro-symptoms and is ravenously hungry. I feed her small bits of bland food every hour or so. We sit on the sofa a lot, her little nose in the crook of my neck. Resting together.  I am breathing her into my very body with relief.

I am soooo exhausted. My rat lab efforts for the DS & WLS  research started today to top it all, and of course yesterday in the crisis I lost all my will to eat anything!  I had to really force myself to kind of resemble a normal eating day for me - it was not easy as I felt very nauseous too. I just am totally crap at dealing with high stress situations.  Still - I am determined to go through with it - flu, doggie crisis - whatever else hits me!  I really want to find out what makes this DS tick.  I am interested in the metabolic possibilities - I have always felt with my DS that it goes further than just the malabsorption.  I duly collected my samples in the am!  Today I have done my best to slot myself back into my usual eating patterns in the interests of science. Although I ate cold chicken for breakfast, something not usual for me!  Then later I had a yogurt. Lunch was a tin of tuna and bean salad. Dinner - chicken curry, beans and a little rice. Not really enough - looking at it now. Later I will eat a banana and some nuts and drink a big milky drink.

Still - let me say despite the exhaustion, I had a wonderful day today. To have my Ruby back in her own home has been fantastic. What is so sweet is that her tail has not stopped wagging.  Pete arrived in the morning quite grey with fear I think, poor man. I had contacted him last night and he too had a dreadful night. It was great to be able to tell him that our girlie had made it!

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that a piece of mouldy food could be so incredibly dangerous. I think the fact that it had been dug up might have made it more so than usual as mycotoxins are also found in compost and at the begining of winter I duly composted all the flowerbeds.

I hope with all my heart that this is the last of dog crises in my life FOREVER!

My world could get paranoid - A Vasorum everywhere, even the sight of a slug gives me the heebeejeebs..then thinking about all those yuccky bugs in supermarket chicken & now mycotoxins… 8-O

I was in marks & sparks just now & caught myself deliberating about buying a huge bottle of germ killing hand sanitiser, but then I thought a cherry compote yogurt might be a much nicer idea ….here’s to the good bacteria in life! :lol:

I almost can’t write about bugs/viruses etc today. I am infested. I have the most ghastly flu. I have been in bed all day - too weak to do very much at all. It’s very frustrating as I have so much I need to do. I have no appetite at all but managed a few protein shooters and glasses of fortified milk.  Anyway I am having a pity party - but it will pass - and soon I hope.

When I can eat which is more often than not  - I love chicken - roast with crispy rosemary potato’s on the side, cut into cubes and stewed till tender in wine & mushroom sauce, stir fried with ginger & lemongrass, chicken in tomato & onion sauce, chicken curries…it’s something I never get tired of eating or cooking.

Then I go and read this….

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/6265152/Deadly-food-bug-in-65pc-of-chicken-FSA-study-says.html

Usually I’m up to the neck with food scaremongering - everything seems dangerous these days. If we could be breatherians we’d be okay but somehow I don’t think that is possible for me in this life yet.  Seriously though - this article did shock me somewhat.

Organic meat/chicken/diary has never been a big thing on my list - ever since a friend of mine who is a microbiologist told me that bugs love organic food best.   It made sense to me.  So I had a heads up on that one…many years ago.

But I am a big on the free range concept. I’m a guilty carnivore.

I like the idea of the little chicklets having a brilliant time scratching in real soil, gazing up at blue skys above and tussling worms out of the earth. I like to think at the end of a happy hen day they are fluffily bedded down in sweet hay filled barns to sleep, perchance to even dream - before they meet their awful end.

So I head for free range off my supermarket shelf and pay my extra money for the extra portion of bad bug potential… :-?

All I can say is those of us with surgeries like the DS that mean we eat lot’s of meat & chicken must be aware that a bug in our rerouted guts is no joke. I contracted such a bug on a trip in Hong Kong and compared with the odd bug I got in my olden days of a normal bowel - well, it is not comparable. I’ll save you the gruesome details but my discomfort was extreme. I was very ill indeed though mercifully never ended up in hospital.

I doubt I will stop eating chicken.  It’ll probably still be free range because weighed up against an antibioticed battery hen living an unbearable life…welll…I just don’t know.  I think I will be looking into it a little more and deciding which way I will be buying my hen in the future.   Meantime I plan to cook my chicken & meat VERY well.  I’ll definately be giving it that extra 10 mins cooking time to be on the safe side in the future.


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